LET'S TALK ABOUT SEX, BABY!
No, really, let's talk about sex, pleasure, power, and why Vella is putting science in service of women's pleasure. Leave the shame, taboos, blushing cheeks at the door - this is a conversation about health, wellness and why pleasure is a right.
Meeting the team at Vella not only was a life-altering moment for our business, but for Katie & me personally. Buckle up, 'cause we're about to blow your minds with just a few of the podcast gems you'll hear in this episode:
Hit play. Share with a friend. Share with a partner. Get some Vella (no seriously, use the promo code ITALLMEDIA for 30% off).
ANNOUNCING IAM on MAVEN
And, then, once you've done all that head over to Maven.com to join the NEWLY LAUNCHED & EXCLUSIVELY OFFERED Define, Create, Own ™ Intensive created and taught by yours truly - Kacie & Katie, Creators of the Fuck "IT ALL" Podcast and Co-Founders of IT ALL Media.
Early bird gets the worm - use IAMEARLY promo code to get $200 off the course, getting you all the tools, support, and accountability to create a life you don't need to escape from for a cool $549.
OK, headed off to go use some Vella.
X,
K+K
This is an IT ALL Media Production. If you like what you hear, follow along at ITALLMedia.co and @itallmedia on Instagram and TikTok.
We are a women-centered media company rewriting the narrative on modern womanhood through story and collaboration.
We're glad you're here.
LET'S TALK ABOUT SEX, BABY!
No, really, let's talk about sex, pleasure, power, and why Vella is putting science in service of women's pleasure. Leave the shame, taboos, blushing cheeks at the door - this is a conversation about health, wellness and why pleasure is a right.
Meeting the team at Vella not only was a life-altering moment for our business, but for Katie & me personally. Buckle up, 'cause we're about to blow your minds with just a few of the podcast gems you'll hear in this episode:
Hit play. Share with a friend. Share with a partner. Get some Vella (no seriously, use the promo code ITALLMEDIA for 30% off).
ANNOUNCING IAM on MAVEN
And, then, once you've done all that head over to Maven.com to join the NEWLY LAUNCHED & EXCLUSIVELY OFFERED Define, Create, Own ™ Intensive created and taught by yours truly - Kacie & Katie, Creators of the Fuck "IT ALL" Podcast and Co-Founders of IT ALL Media.
Early bird gets the worm - use IAMEARLY promo code to get $200 off the course, getting you all the tools, support, and accountability to create a life you don't need to escape from for a cool $549.
OK, headed off to go use some Vella.
X,
K+K
This is an IT ALL Media Production. If you like what you hear, follow along at ITALLMedia.co and @itallmedia on Instagram and TikTok.
We are a women-centered media company rewriting the narrative on modern womanhood through story and collaboration.
We're glad you're here.
hello and welcome to the Fuck"It All" Podcast for modern women redefining it all. I am so excited because today we are talking about sex, baby. We are talking with Carolyn Wheeler. Carolyn is the COO and co-founder of Vella Bioscience, a fem tech company driven to put science in service of every woman's sexual empowerment. In 2021 Vella Bioscience launched with its flagship category- first product Vella Women's Pleasure Serum, which is designed to give women power over their pleasure. I'm going to just give a little plug here, Katie and I, you know, we can't endorse things. We don't try. We went ahead after meeting their CMO Bulbul, who connected us with Carolyn, we purchased a couple of jars for scientific reasons only had to try it out. Um, 10 out of 10 recommend. 10 out of 10 recommend. So we're going to get into not only your individual story, Carolyn, but we're also going to be talking about the movement, this pleasure empowerment movement that Vella is starting around women taking ownership and autonomy over our pleasure as it relates to sex and wellness. And this to me is so, so powerful. Our mission and vision at IT ALL Media is to see women as equal and valued architects of the systems that run our lives at work at home and in our communities, and buried within that is this idea of wellness of pleasure. And it's beyond the orgasm. The orgasm is important. Love that for all of us, but it is what this represents. And you and I were talking in our first conversation, this represents a systemic lack of intention and importance historically in science and medicine and culture. And that is what I'm just so freaking excited to talk to you about today.
Carolyn:I wish I could like go back and get a degree or something and the history of how women have been represented in health science and in medical schools But there's a lot of literature out there that will tell you that. Women were allowed into clinical trials until 1993. I mean, so the ramifications of that, you see that there's prescription drugs that were developed during that time that worked differently in men than they did in women. And they have worse side effects in women than in men. So they didn't even think to study that before they started letting women buy these without having tested the drug and a woman's body. Um, so yeah, like...
Kacie:So this has been a really big awakening. We've recently launched a partnership with Semaine Health; they're a women's multivitamin and supplement company. And in our conversations with their co-founders Cath and Lar, we started talking about women in the medical system and you know, you and I are both white women, but the numbers change drastically. When you start talking about women of color, um, socioeconomic, like it changes drastically, but so often in our healthcare system, at least for me growing up and in my life, what the doctor says, I've trusted, right? They went to school; they they've done these things, but then as I've started to become more educated on the systemic effects of the patriarchy of how women have been represented in these systems, it's just, like you said, dawned on me, like we have to take autonomy and begin to question and learn and be curious because it's not out of maliciousness that these individuals, these professionals, that these doctors are not able to fully represent us, but it is out of a systemic structure. Like the system is performing how it is designed. So the fact that we haven't been represented in medical trials, we have to now take a different approach in an awareness. And so that is what I love is like, to me, owning of your pleasure is the start to be like, I'm going to take autonomy and actually have a point of view and participate. I can no longer not participate in these systems that are running our lives.
Carolyn:Absolutely. It's really important to understand what's missing and that you don't, it doesn't dawn on you until, well, it didn't dawn on me till we started this stolen. I started working for Vella. There was for instance, I think it was earlier this year. There went viral a medical illustration of a black woman with a fetus in utero. and that went viral because women of color, people of color have never been historically represented in medical illustration, which going back to like the third or fifth century, BC has been the most consistent tool to teach young doctors what constitutes the body. And so that said, I mean, that was on our radar, but while we were working, when we started developing. When we, when we started to bring Vella to market, we were thinking, Hey, this is going to require a huge amount of education, like up and down. What is female sexual arousal? How is that different than orgasm? How is that different than desire? And then with female sexual arousal, like there's a physiological change in your body that we don't learn about as... I never learned about, I never, certainly never learned about in sex education. So that suddenly when we first started, you know, we first realized, okay, this is we're going to require an enormous amount of education. We, we started to look for diagrams and things of that nature or a medical illustration that was like an authoritative image developed by someone who is, you know, there's all board certification in order to be a medical illustrator. So we couldn't find there. We couldn't find one. We couldn't find a medical illustration of what an aroused vagina looks like.
Kacie:So let's just pause. You started this, the company's launched in 2021 and in the 2020s, there was not a documented at least that you were able to find.
Carolyn:And we corroborated this with a woman who is a doctor who, um, her name is Dr. Nicole Prause. She runs a orgasm research lab in LA, which
Kacie:I mean, honestly, best job ever.
Carolyn:Best job ever. And she speaks a lot to this. So in her presentations that she does for, for big audiences, she has never been able to find one either what she does is take a screenshot from a pornography just to show what a lubricated vagina looks like, but that's not the whole thing. There's a lot more that signals sexual arousal, like engorgement. Like your Volvo elongates. Like there's all these things that like are actually happening in your body and
Kacie:Physiologically change. Yeah. In your body like take away. And I just love that... You and I talked about this in our initial conversation, like historically even saying this vulva, labia, clitoris, those feel like, oh my God, these are sex words and we're saying sex. And, but yeah, we don't say that when we talk about penis and Viagra, we don't get shy. Like these are be talked about and matter of fact ways, and...
Carolyn:We're all very familiar with like what male sexual arousal is like and what that looks like. And the medical community is very familiar. And that's in part, you know, that is systemic, that comes from a systemic belief that women, I think, that women's sexual pleasure doesn't matter as much because it, if it did doctors and researchers would have made this diagram would have done this research. It looks more further, more into the complexities of female sexual arousal a long time ago. And would have been developed something like Vella a long time ago instead, you know, because they have ample data because that's the data that they've been looking for.
Kacie:Right. Exactly. We have to caveat that. Yeah.
Carolyn:So there's tons and tons of treatments for men because of how much research has been done on male sexual pleasure. There hasn't been the same on women's. So we hired a woman who is board certified medical illustrator to make the first medical illustration of an aroused female vagina and are trying, we've offered it to textbooks for free licensure to use and giving it to any doctor that we meet that speaks on these things whether it's with their patients or if they, are presenting at a conference or whatnot. Just because it is an important image and it needs to be added to the canon of, of how students of medicine or are learning. Yeah.
Kacie:I I'm obsessed with so many things here because. Like you said, like the initial thing, you know, we are like, oh, orgasms. Yes, that's great. But I like how that you've peeled back the onion to say like, well, why wasn't this important? And I think that women's sexuality because it is so integrated into our reproductive rights. It is so integrated, like sex can quote unquote work without it being pleasurable for a woman whereas men don't have that same function just given the way our bodies are designed that, that in itself it's like, okay, well, whether it is enjoyable, pleasurable or not is not quantified of whether sex is working for a woman. It's, it's more often, um, her working quote unquote working is tied to can she reproduce? Oh, of course.
Carolyn:Yeah, of course. And that's what is tied to the fact that women weren't allowed into clinical trials from 1993 is because of this idea that women's bodies are sacred and. because of their ability to reproduce and that was it. But there's other, you know, besides a lack of, of sexual education for women in terms of a medical school environment, I mean this translates to all sorts of other things like coronary heart disease. That is in textbook images. That is always from what my limited research that's always been depicted in how it forms and how it affects men. But coronary heart disease affects women in a very different way. So it requires a different illustration to accurately teach a physician the difference let alone, how to treat the patient herself and educate the woman on what is going on in her body. And so the lack of this drawing could be a factor in house. why women are so much more misdiagnosed for coronary heart disease at higher rates than men. So it spans all of these.
Kacie:I have to know, did like little Carolyn somewhere you're growing up, you're like, one day, I'mma be working with the sex tech, fem tech company, like, was that always on the radar to nine-year-old Carolyn?
Carolyn:Um, no, but it doesn't, but I feel
Kacie:like I could have known the end of that story, but I wanted that, you know, maybe I was wrong. How did this come to be? How did you become like working in this space?
Carolyn:Well, let me just preface this by saying, I grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I remember...
Kacie:Apparently sex capital of the United States.
Carolyn:Super progressive and, uh, I remember being 16. I hope my mom doesn't listen. Well, I hope she does. When I was like 15 or 16 years old, like me and my best friend were in a parking lot and had an older friend who we had asked to go to the head shop because vibrators were only sold at head shops. It's just like, that's the vice store. And just having our friend go in who was 18, cause he had also had to be 18 to go into the head shop and buy us each a vibrator. I feel like I've been sexually progressive for my own pleasure for a while. I can go through the line, the history of how I've gotten here, which is basically not saying no to interesting opportunities. Like I thought this was a super compelling project. Like it's an intellectual project based
Kacie:intellectual as hell.
Carolyn:Yeah. And I, I think it's, you know, I think it's extremely important, especially in today's cultural context with so many things being like, I would like to think of post me too movement; we're post hashtag me too, and we're in a me first stage instead and there's lots of conversations around female sexual empowerment, there's a lot of work to do. And, I have always wanted to be doing something that affected social change to some degree in the careers that I've had to this point, I think have reflected that, that desire in one way or the other, um, And, that has shifted my interests have shifted and I feel like I've just, I've been good at keeping doors open because I never followed a perfect script of climbing the corporate ladder or anything like that. But I, I knew that I wanted, I don't know. I knew that I, I, I, I want you
Kacie:Well you did something right because you're the chief operating officer. So you may not have climbed the traditional corporate ladder, but you, you certainly haven't you and I originally talked and I said like, we'll talk about, fuck it all moments. And you like died laughing. And you're like, I feel like my entire life has been kind of like a little bit of a fuck it all mindset. So yeah, I think that it's like, you know, I'm always curious, I very much prescribed to a very traditional narrative and then had that really fuck it all momentthat blew up or disintegrated a lot of those beliefs. And then in recharging that I'm, you know, 18 months into that journey, I'm always fascinated. My co-founder Katie, she has more of what we call the fuck it all mindset. I'm a fuck it all moment. She's a fuck it all mindset. So a moment is a singular moment in time. It's like things are going and then it's like this moment where you choose yourself and it is in opposition to a lot of times others' beliefs. And even sometimes your belief of former self. A fuck it all mindset it is ideally the goal that we hope for every woman, it's an active practice and questioning of what do I want? Like you said, a me first mindset and that doesn't mean selfishness at all costs to every, I think that's the important distinction. It's that I'm going to check in with myself to know how I arrive best. What do I actually want? And in doing that, my impact is going to be exponential because I'm taking care. So it's we say it's like systemic self care beyond the face mask. Like no more face mask and bubble bath, like let's actually take care of ourselves. So we don't need those things to feel good. So you, like when you were talking, it sounded like you've been practicing a mindset of really questioning and pursuing what is right for you along the course?
Carolyn:Well, the basis for me saying that is the best advice I have till this day ever gotten, I was 21, you know, fresh out of college. And I was living in New York and I had visited back home to Tulsa with my mom and was talking about my insecurities about my ability to do this new job. And I was working at a publishing house as an editor. And she said to me, she says, Carolyn, if you don't do it, some other idiot will. That was like, you're right. I might fuck it up too. But it gives you a mindset of like, there's just, you know, I'm another idiot and she didn't mean that in a disparaging way, but it's just like, you're not, no, one's like. Got that like, believe in yourself, like just do it.
Kacie:I love that.I, my husband and I, that was our parenting mantra: a lot less qualified people have done this. Right. Right. So like, I mean that at some point you have to trust in your innate abilities and recognize, and I really loved that. And being able to come from your mother is such a powerful thing. Moms and daughters, I have, like, I feel like that could be a whole study within itself of just those, those dynamics and those beliefs. But to have someone say like, listen, take yourself seriously enough, because if it's not, you, it's someone else. That's such a gift. And you actually, that's one of our rapid fire.Questions, best advice. So you just answered that. You just did the damn thing. So I love this. Um, wasn't on the plan you've said yes to interesting opportunities. You come to Vella, no pun intended. That's just so great. So I want to share with you some of the initial things that both you and Bulbul shared with me and my co-founder Katie around Vella, around some of the mindset and how it's played a role in I would say the past, like six months of getting to know Vella and not just the product, but the mindset that comes with it. So, um, I'm 30, I'll be 33 this year. I've been with my partner, my husband for 10 years, we've been married for six, have a two and a half year old, almost three-year-old daughter. I consider myself pretty sexually liberal, like have had partners before marriage. We've shared openly around Mother's Day in America I had an abortion when I was 23. So, um...
Carolyn:Same that..
Kacie:And I like to talk about that because as someone who I was on birth control, we were using protection. Guess what still happens? And it was with the partner I'm now with, um, so that, you know, that carries a lot of weight around what that means. And so my relationship with my sexuality and pleasure has really ebbed and flowed. Younger it was a lot more bold, really free. And then in that moment, when I was 23, because I was doing all the good girl things, I was in a long-term committed relationship, I was using protection and this still happened. And then to have to make a decision that carries a lot of shame and a lot of judgment. Um, my body then became a medical vehicle more than a sexual.
Carolyn:And it became political, too.
Kacie:It became political. God, yes. And just hiding that, like there were so many things within that. And so my husband and I, you know, over the, as the rest of the world, the past two years, three years has been really hard on families, on individuals. Like, you know, very crazy period of time just at home, raising a family. And so originally started talking about women's health. I went to a pelvic floor therapist two years postpartum and the things I learned in a$250 session, because first mind you, um, when I was postpartum, postpartum care in America, I have a lot of opinions on that. It's not good. Um, I went to my doctor, she said, um, so this was a year later. So I had been peeing myself for a year. Which is just great. Um, and she says, you might want to consider pelvic floor. This was like a very flippant comment. We'll look into it. She calls me back. She's like, Hey, looked at your insurance can be four grand. Wow, that's really expensive. So like, let me see if we hit our deductible, maybe I'll do it. So right there, I'm like if the rest of my family needs to take care of themselves and get medical treatment, then I'll consider pelvic floor therapy. But until then, just going to be weird with peeing, um, and you know, all sorts of other things. So then cut to, it really becomes more of an issue I'm having to do what they call stinting to pee, which is where you have to press to be able to pee well. So I start researching it and I find a pelvic floor company here in Atlanta, I ended up meeting with our specialist. Amazing. She's like four grand? That's crazy. Come in for two sessions. We'll have you basically with your PT at home, you're going to be good. The things I learned for$500 in two hours worth of sessions were things I should have learned at 13 year old sex ed, the fact of diaphragm breathing, being attached to your pelvic floor, how to make sure you're not emptying your bladder. And I am pissed off the fact that I learned about STDs and STIs before I learned about my own body. I'm furious about that because I have gone through my entire life. I'm a 32 year old woman that I'm first learning this. So that was the first kind of like, wow, this is really crazy. And she shared with me, she said it's actually considered in every other country in the world, negligent care to not have pelvic floor therapy postpartum.
Carolyn:Interesting. Very interesting. I've only even learned about pelvic floor therapy recently. Like as even a profession. I think it's still, it sounds like it's a growing one, but,
Kacie:and I'm sure like social media ability for us to have these open conversations, because I think historically these are things that are had in private and Katie and I talk about this a lot. Our moms have been a really cool like microcosm experiment. So because they are both in their sixties, different generation things are kept really quiet. And when I first told my mom about this, we're at dinner with my stepdad and my husband, and I'm like, I'm into pelvic floor therapy and she's a little hush hush. She's like, oh, she's kind of whispering it. And so I'm like telling her about this and she's like, I think I need to go mind you, she had a child 32 years prior and she's like, I could go. Cut to like a month later we're sitting there and she starts openly talking about this. So I'm like, okay, this is a microcosm of when we start talking about things openly, even within safe spaces, like a family, there is generational gain here. Like she, for the first time is talking openly. So that's like, step one of me stepping into just knowing my body a little bit better. Then I meet Semaine. And they're talking about these supplements. And they're talking about the ability of all of our systems working together right now like our period is the most common cycle that we talk about, um, and our menstrual cycle, but there's also immune systems. There's metabolic systems that all of these are in play with each other simultaneously. And we'll get into, there's a lot of content coming around that that we're creating, but that women work on 28 day energy cycles. Men work on 24 hour energy side.
Carolyn:Interesting. No. I had no idea. Yeah.
Kacie:Well, it, doesn't it a nine to five grind to make a lot more sense. When you think about men operating on it, because their energy peaks during the day and it falls. If you look at back in the day, when we were doing manual labor, they had to rise and set with the sun. So their energy cycles to be able to go with that we're women, we're doing more. So I'm learning about this. And then I meet Bulbul and I meet you and Vella. And a couple of things that is said to me, women are ambitious in every area of our lives. Like we're out here creating companies, we're leading our families. We are stepping forward in political movements like me too, and black lives matter. Like we're doing all of this stuff and why is it in our sex lives?"Fine," Is the adequate answer for how it's going.
Carolyn:We are emotional laborers and pleasure is an emotion and we that emotion we don't allow for ourselves. And that's, it's not that it's, I mean, yeah, it can be hard to have those conversations with your partner, but it's. I don't know, like female masturbation also is not something that women talk about that much. Like, you don't need a partner. I don't. Yeah,
Kacie:Totally. And so then I feel really compelled. So I start talking to my husband about this, just like, I'm really interested. I'm like, this is fascinating to me starting to talk about like the systemic play, the things that got here. And I just invite anybody listening and I recognize not all relationships are open; not spaces are safe, but I have found that if you were willing to go first and come; at it with a, this is my experience, it opens a beautiful door. So about six months ago, my husband and I start just having super open conversations of like, I'm fascinated by this. And did you know, like the women's body changes. And I love that they, um, I think you will say like the women's most powerful sex organ is their brain. And one of the things that was said is like, Vella helps you forget about that load of laundry in the corner. Your body can still react. Like you can be present in the moment. So you're not over here, thinking about, and that resonated with me. And I think so many women, especially moms and, and people are in long-term relationships. There's an initial excitement that comes with sex in a new relationship, but over a period of time, as it becomes more normal and it carries the weight, right? Like who does the dishes comes into the bedroom? It is so intertwined, especially for women just of how we're wired and where our bodies respond and where our minds. And I'm sure, you know, so much more about this. But when he and I were talking about this, I started to say like, I want sex to look differently for us. So I'm 23 when I have my abortion, that sex really changes for us with a married, had a child, and now I'm 32. And I say like, I want this to look different. I want to be eager to have sex. I don't want it to be something you're asking me, and I feel guilty for not wanting to have, I want it to be something that we both come to and we both really enjoy. So what does that look like? He was so excited by this conversation because he's like, I want you to want, I don't like, it doesn't feel good that you're not. And I just say like 10 years into a relationship, I feel like we are going through a sexual renaissance in our own way, because it's coming from a place of honesty and like true care for the other person that is so much more intimate. I think that sometimes when we talk about sex, it's like, we're not talking about hyper-sexualized porn, like that's, I'm talking about like intimacy with your partner in pleasure. And like you said, like connection,
Carolyn:Connection, physical and mental.
Kacie:Yes. And then just like you said, like even masturbation to be like, you know, we're both working from home and it's like a joke with within it's like, I'm going to go to the bedroom, I'll see you in a bit, like, don't come in unless you want to show like, you know, like 2:00 PM. So we went, we got Vella, House of Wise Amanda Goetz who was a guest on the, show, she has sex gummies CBD gummies started taking those, which are just really fun things to try. And what I love, and we talk about this with Semaine is it's not a one size fits all, like right. The fact that we now have options to be able to try and play and see what works for us. We got a vibrator. So you were 15, 16 getting our first vibrator. I was 32.
Carolyn:Yeah. I don't know what that says about me, but
Kacie:I literally don't work or study for that. I don't know my husband and I both said this and I don't know what this says about us as parents, but we both said like, I hope our daughter understands her autonomy over her sexual pleasure earlier. Like, I would be devastated if she waited until 32 to enjoy sex the way I am now enjoying. Yeah, that I never had before and not just sex with a partner, but pleasure for herself, because that is a wellness that is an empowerment to know that you are not there in service of your sexual partner. You are there to have a shared experience of self-worth as well. Like it is a bigger message that we are sending to our girls and our women and our children.
Carolyn:I mean, from your perspective, do you think that like that many women even understand that masturbation is an option for them? I don't know, women are fucking smart. Like women are smart, they get their bodies, but at the same time, like in movies or the cultural context that we live in, we hear about boys jerking off in middle school and there's like a little bit of shame to that or embarrassment or whatever, but that's completely normal for them.
Kacie:Oh yeah. I like for me, masturbation was not talked about at all in my sexual health, in conversations about sex with my family, really, you know, friends. And it wasn't until I was older and had certain groups, like I have one friend who was just like super open about masturbation and always made me laugh, but she also opened the door of like, oh, that's a thing. Like I was in my early twenties before I ever masturbated. Makes me sad and frustrated because I also then turn to boys who had zero idea what they were doing to try to meet some need that I wasn't even able to meet for myself. And I can say that now in a long-term committed relationship, that honesty has invited so many more conversations around things we want to try together. Like it's become a healthier, more balanced relationship in our bedroom that has bled to other areas of our lives around sharing balance. And we have to laugh at this story. So we had sex for the first time the other day where I orgasm, then he did it. And I felt like so bad. I'm like, oh my God. And he's like, Kacie welcome to literally every sex that we've probably had in our history of being together where I orgasmed them and you didn't. And I'm like, oh my great guy. I mean, he totally is, but it was like, that's what men have been experiencing all this time.
Carolyn:It's yep. They've had a pretty good.
Kacie:I love that we're talking about this. So I know that we're getting into like the sex of it. And I do think that it's important to do that, but you were talking. You all are VC backed your investor backed and you go into rooms as a woman talking about women's pleasure. And something we were talking about is-one normalizing this conversation saying clitoris like plain, speak; talking about female arousal. How do you manage that?
Carolyn:Right. So, okay. Vella was developed by two scientists. One of whom led the development of Viagra and Cialis. And has had three articles written in the New England Journal of Medicine and is a very, well-regarded expert. So when the doctor who developed Viagra said, you know, I've got something guys that relaxes smooth muscle. We know that from our clinical studies, um, so in any, anyway, what I'm trying to say is, is that if I go into a room of men, I have that as, as a point that they understand and like they get how valuable Biafra is in their life. I mean, I'm talking to old white men about this, they get it. They get it probably. I in some ways better than women, just because they understand the arousal process as physical and because they have erections and it's the obvious thing. And so if I help them understand that we too have an erection, I would dare to call it that in some capacity, because it's in engorgement it becomes your clitoris becomes rigid and things like that. So once I start making that comparison, they understand the value proposition. They also, just like your husband was explaining to you. It makes him happier. It makes him happy and satisfied in his own sexual experience that know that you're enjoying it and finding pleasure with it otherwise I think there's a sense of guilt or I don't, you know, I really don't spend much. Thinking about, or try to empathize with that but above everything else, it's for me to walk and to sit at a table where I'm the only woman and I'm in a, you know, with eight men all around me and explaining this product to them for the first time, it is absolutely integral that I say all of this without any kind of sense of shame, because that shame is so contagious. And once they, once they sense that they're not going to see the market opportunity, they're not going to, they're not going to take it as seriously. So that has been, a really important tool for me to have developed over the past few years, which has, it has required development to say. And I'm kind of embarrassed myself in a way just to admit that. Vagina's just become a very normal word in my lexicon now. And it kind of always felt a little bit like vulgar to me and I, I look back and I'm like, I never want my daughters to feel that way. So we've saved vagina, like maybe too much. Oh my God. It's I feel like you and I probably have a similar household. My podcast is called fuck it all, and we talk about vaginas a lot. I'm like, I don't know what her vocabulary is going to be at 5, 7, 10, but like, God help us. I know I have two daughters. One's six and one's two, my six year old is like, Yeah. She actually, it's pretty awesome. I tell her when I am on my period and when my husband asks me to do things around the house, she'll say mommy can't do that because she's on her period. Like
Kacie:Oh my God. I'm teaching. I'm teaching my daughter that I love it. I know we do too. We talk very openly about tampons or period cups. Like mommy, what's that? Mommy, once a month has a cycle. This is if we wanted to have a baby, like try to talk about it because for me. I knew periods were coming. I knew it was a thing, but I didn't understand the health aspect of a period and what that actually meant. I just like, oh, you're a woman. I don't know what that means at 12 or 13. Right. And so I think it's so powerful. And then to watch these young minds, I'm sure you see, especially with your six-year-old, like, it's not weird to them because they don't have the societal context. Like, it's just a very matter of fact thing. And that, to me shows that like, it is capable. Like we are capable and I learned so much and like, my daughter is like the ultimate challenge for me to live my values. Because like you said, like you don't want them to carry any of the negativity or shame that so many of us have.
Carolyn:Yeah, exactly. And so, and also it's for their safety too. Totally. Yeah. I mean like, I want them to know what vulva means. Like I need them to have, I want them to have the vocabulary God forbid anything ever happened, but it's really important for them to understand their bodies in a deep way as in just building the vocabulary at this age.
Kacie:There's a stat I read recently and I won't claim to be expert in this, but I do invite anybody listening to go look it up that young children that know anatomical naming conventions for their sexual parts or private parts, vagina clitoris et cetera, are significantly less likely to one be abused because if it's called your PP or your TT it's more easy to mask. And then second of all, that, if they are, they are significantly more likely to say something and report it earlier on.
Carolyn:They feel like they have agency over it.
Kacie:Yes, exactly. And so I just, I that's something that our family has really adopted and yes, we had our own, you know, kind of weirdness with it and even telling grandparents like, oh, we're going pee. Like, no, we need to say vagina. We need to say those words. It's so important. And so invite anybody here act boldly in that because it is not only just for like societal good it's for safety. Absolutely. Okay. So tell me. What is Vella, we've been hyping it up. We've been talking about it, like, tell me specifically, what is it?
Carolyn:So it's called Vella Women's Pleasure Serum, the company is called Vella Bioscience. Our website is VellaBio.com.
Kacie:W e'll put this all in the show notes, so everybody can have it. And we also have a promo code stay tuned to the end of the episode look in the show notes because you'll be able to give it a try
Carolyn:Vella is a, breakthrough. It's a truly innovative product. We've got patent applications on a lot of aspects of it, including its manufacturing, its uses and et cetera. So there's nothing like it on the market period. The main ingredient is CBD, and so there's arousal oils and stuff like that, that contain CBD. But what makes Vella special is that the CBD is encapsulated in liposomes. Liposomes are the most effective way to bring any kind of molecule, like deep to the tissue where the site of action. So CBD is, and we're not a CBD company. CBD is just an ingredient that works for this. But only if it's delivered properly and only if you get the right amount delivered. It's a pre play topical, it's a lotion. You apply it to your clitoris and labia and it works by relaxing, smooth muscle tissue. Which is the same thing that Viagra does it relaxes smooth muscle tissue in the penis so that more blood can flow in to the tissue and becomes hard. So that means engorgement and lubrication also are two of the big things that happen when you're aroused and it's a prerequisite for orgasm. So what Vella does is it enhances your orgasms. There are more intense and it allows more frequent orgasms. And um, yeah, longer orgasms. I mean, it works on two out of three women. It does not work for everybody. So Viagra though works on 50% of men in the real world that doesn't work on every man either. And I, frankly, I don't know why, I don't know why there's that discrepancy, but there is somehow, and yeah, it works too for any age hormonal status.
Kacie:I know that we were talking and I believe it was like 17 to 75 or something. It was like, you know, pre and post-menopausal because so many women, sex and pleasure is associated with their age. And then we've talked to several women that are post-menopausal and they say that the worst part of getting older is not the changes, but that you become invisible. You become invisible to assistant society to pleasure to like, you're just not represented. And I, there, they didn't stop being a human.
Carolyn:I was reading this well, I didn't read the article, but I read some of it but in British Vogue Emma Thompson was saying, did people just forget middle-aged women like enjoy sex. And so they've gotten invisible. So what we're launching actually in September, what we're calling women's intimate elixir for this, for women at every stage of menopause, because this is like a completely overlooked. A totally population of women who still happens to literally every woman everywhere. So like every woman and they still want to have sex. And so vaginal dryness there's issues that prevent it or make it more painful. So what the women's intimate elixir has in it as a hyaluronic acid. So we're trying to bring like the ingredients from beauty that most women, well, I wouldn't say most, it's a privileged class. We'll just say, who know these ingredients, but have never seen them in sexual wellness. So we're trying to like, elevate the sexual wellness category so that it becomes by bringing these ingredients, it's not only helping to normalize it because you know, you see those ingredients in your skincare products, but it's also, helping to provide benefits and recognition of what is missing from the menopause consumer choices.
Kacie:Yeah. I mean, if you look, let's just take like a Target or a Walgreens or wherever, if you look at the beauty aisles, you have probably four beauty aisles between makeup, skincare, hair, body. When you look at sexual, first of all, it's put under family planning, which that's separate. When we look at like fem care specifically, you may be have about four inches of a shelf in one aisle. And that to me is, is when we talk about women being equal and valued architects of these systems, like I would love to see a women's aisle, a sexual wellness aisle, a health and wellness aisle that is comparable to our beauty aisles. Wouldn't it be? We talk about this in our episode with Semaine. Like, wouldn't it be so amazing to walk down an aisle and be like, oh my God, that's for me. And I feel represented and I want to try that the same excitement that we feel about putting on our faces to make sure we keep looking young. Wouldn't it be great to do something for ourselves that is like true joy and pleasure and wellness. Yeah.
Carolyn:But that what the women's intimate elixir we're being very careful, like we, we are trying to show with it that a respect for that, that woman. Like, we're not trying to write, trying to position it as like, anti-aging, this is very pro aging. Like I think that this is something good and that your body is like, and it doesn't need to be shameful or wishing you were something else. Exactly, exactly. And like your wrinkles, you should be proud of them. Like you've lived your life.
Kacie:I love this push because the beauty industry today is sold on become who you used to be. And I like what you all are doing is be exactly where you are and here's products to enhance and amplify this moment in time in your life.
Carolyn:Yeah, exactly. And enjoy it because you deserve it. You've probably had, I don't know, women are, women are just so amazing and complicated and just the best, their best. And. I want to be sure that we're giving them, options. It makes me feel really proud to know that I'm part of a company that is really trying to fulfill the brand promise of sexually empowering every woman, despite their age or hormonal status or what have you. Okay. I love it. What have we not talked about today that you want to, is there anything related to products that are coming things that we want people to know, the changes that you're looking to make in these systems? Like, I want to make sure you have the floor because this is such an important conversation. And I've told you, I'm working on the fact of us having several of these, because I think this is such a deep and nuanced topic that like, I want you guys back as much as you'll come and you make coming come easy, It's one of our taglines. I love it. You know that's a good question. I don't know, Kacie I don't like, I'm trying to come up with something smart to say that we haven't talked about before. This has been, this is one hell of a conversation. Like I feel, I guess maybe something that we can, we can leave our listeners with. Like, what is one wish, one homework item outside of go get Vella there's 16 uses per container, which honestly the forethought to use this 16 times like that could last you a year legit. Like I hope it lasts less, but like, you know, it lasts a while. The packaging is stunning. I love it. I know that one of the goals was to have it, to be this really elevated product that you're proud to put on your counter. It is right next to my Semaine products. I've got all my sexual wellness things right there next to my vitamins and my face cream. What is something that we invite our audience to do like to become more in touch and more empowered in their own bodies and their own sexual wellness. Yeah, I think it's recognizing first of all, if you are orgasm challenged, you're not alone. Like 62% of women have a hard time reaching orgasm. Between ages 45 to 65 there's a study that said 55% of women that they interviewed, like over 31,000 women in this study, 55% of women said that they have arousal problems and 48% of women that same age groups, that they have orgasm problems. And you see about in ages 18 to 44. So the younger demographic below that has same thing, but around 30% of both so there should feel no shame in it at all. Like, and you don't have to necessarily get a product like Vella, but it could potentially really help you if you have those problems. But just knowing that those are reflective of any of your inadequacies as a person and especially don't let your partner think that they are like my worst, like visioning. Thing is like your partner thinks that you're deficient and therefore the doubles down on maybe your own insecurity. I love that piece. And that is something I wanted to talk on. I think as women, a lot of times, our ability to reach out orgasm or have a pleasurable experience in pop culture in mainstream media, a lot of times it is reflected back on our partner, like, oh, they can't get you there. And I, what, I've just similar to what you were seeing. This is something that is anatomically happening with majority, or at least half of women's population. And this is not something that is reflective of your partner. It is not something reflective of any deficiency. This is a makeup. And just like, if you had a headache, what it, you go grab the Tylenol to make that get better. Or if you wanted to increase your flexibility, you would do your stretches. Like this is something that is a part of our wellness part of our human experience. You are not alone. And something I might say is like, use this episode as a catalyst, share it with your partner, share it with your friends and say, y'all, I'm scared, or I feel weird, but I want to talk about this because I can tell you in doing this on my mom's group, I started a chat. I just said like, uh, got my first vibrator at 30. Let's start there. And everybody's like, okay, send me your link. Like, what do you use? Like, I didn't know. There's so many options. So, um, I just think there is such open space for this and find it, whether it's with your partner, with your friends. I mean, like I said, my mom and I are having hilarious new conversations that we've never had before. After we talked the other day, I think I was telling you, um, my mom and her girlfriends, her girlfriends are visiting her two best friends and they're all in their fifties and early sixties, they call me on speaker. They're like, Hey, so tell us about that new product. They're all like giggling. And the thing they say is like, does your partner have to know you use it? And I thought that was really telling of like me and my husband in our thirties are like, I want to use this with you, but in a different demographic, it's like, does the partner need that?
Kacie:And so there's a lot there. I just say like talk about it. The more we remove shame, the more empowered we are to get curious and take action and have autonomy Abso-fucking-lutely. Um, okay. A few things for you because I love to just know when I talk to amazing women like yourself. When do you feel most in your power?
Carolyn:That's a good question. I feel most of my power. I guess I'm able to have conversations like this. And I feel like there's an audience that is listening and, you know it's a vulnerable conversation to have, to some extent, and you know, what we're sharing, you know, sharing abortion stories like that needs. I mean, I don't, yeah, that, that makes me feel most in my power when I'm able to say things like that and feel like there is coming from saying things like that growth in me, but also I hope influences other people to also not feel ashamed by it. The abortion was really, really emotionally difficult and there wasn't resources for, or books, or uh... do a Joanna Newsome? Do you know that musician, she, I was like, I still am obsessed with her, but around the time I had my abortion, she came out with an album and one of the songs on the album was called Baby Birch. And it's definitely about her having an abortion. And it helped me so much, but there, and there's not um, enough talk about the emotional complexity and the nuances of it. I don't regret it, but it's still like, it's still a majorly transformative part of a woman on, you know, based off of the scenario which had happened and blah, blah, blah. But I guess that's when I feel most of my power is like, when I, when I feel empowered, I guess enough by it, the women who I'm speaking with to be able to share things like that and to feel heard and to feel comradery and those conversations help normalize what are right now, not, not normal conversations still to have.
Kacie:Completely, completely. I love that. On the flip side, finish the sentence for me when my power is shaken. I,
Carolyn:I remember that if I don't do it some other idiot will.
Kacie:Yes, girl. Thank you, mama.
Carolyn:I mean, that doesn't mean I'm like overly confident I'm I'm not, but it's just understanding that the variance of difference between you and somebody else be able to accomplish the goal is not, it's not that much. You can do it.
Kacie:You can do it. What are you reading right now? Or what is a book or a piece of literature that has been really powerful for you, especially in the work that you're doing.
Carolyn:I just read and it's the best book I've read in a really long time called In Extremis. It's a book about the war journalists, Marie Colvin, who died in the Syrian war. She was, um, just an, a remarkably brave courageous bad-ass woman. And was there every war from the eighties to the nineties. And for me, that was. She did whatever she said, fuck it all she wrote. That was true. Fuck it all lady. And, um, I highly recommend that book if anybody needs an example of a life really well lived. What's the best part of being a woman? For me the best part about being a woman. Hmm. I, I feel like a deep sense of creativity because of our ability, whether you do or not have kids, but we're, you know, and I don't want to I want to be sensitive to the women who have difficulty with that but our physiology allows us in best case scenario to be able to create. And that's something that I find immense power from when I think about my body in terms of my respect for my body, though, of course, it's also that same fact has led to our bodies becoming political objects that are governed by men. But that only empowers me even more to fight for our rights and our reproductive rights and our freedoms. In that way.
Kacie:I had a thought this morning is they wouldn't fight so hard to control it if it wasn't so powerful, it's actually right. Power only wants to, to push away other power. So I, that to me is where, while it can feel like at times our bodies and our sexuality is used against us, it's only because it really is the most powerful the thing. And to your point, I'd love the sensitivity but within all of us, I think that just our intuition, our connectivity, that a way that we birth community is birth relationships, birth creativity. We are birthing beings, whether it is, you know, a child or not like that is just in our essence. And that is also one of my favorite things about being a woman. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Such a great episode, such a great conversation. I could just sit and chat with you all day. I've learn every time we have these, and I'm so grateful that you took the time to share your story, share what you're working on with Vella. And I invite everyone listening go over to vellabio.com. You're able to purchase their products, using our code itallmedia.
Carolyn:Come with vella. I try it. I mean, you just have to try it and see if it works for you and it could change your sex life. So,
Kacie:I just want you to know that like the 2023 Gordon Christmas is going to be like, you get a Vella, you get a Vella, you get a Vella. I am giving the gift that keeps on giving. I love it. That is my, my call to action there. Carolyn, you rock. This was so fun
Carolyn:Thank you, Kacie. Thank you very much for inviting me.
Kacie:All right. Y'all another episode of the, fuck. It all podcasts down. My name is Kacie Lett Gordon, I'm your host here. And the founder of it all media head over to itallmedia.co/join. Get on our lately. newsletter comes out weekly. You're going to be up to date on every episode, every event, every workshop, every everything, plus very, very helpful, useful, empowering information. Like the conversation we had today with Carolyn Wheeler. And that's a wrap ladies.